OLGA_AND_MYRIAM-Olga_Zarr__SEOSLY_-webcam-00h_00m_00s_394ms-StreamYard
===
[00:00:00] Hi everyone, it's SEO Cashflow, Olga Zarr here and Myriam Jessier. Myriam how are you doing today?
[00:00:11] Hello, hello,
[00:00:11] doing wonderful. I'm excited because yes, the summer is ending, but the fall is coming. We have a lot of stuff to do. So. How do we even tackle all of it? How do we work better, smarter? And, hmm, I read, I read a publication, well, a study that was done, I think, by SEO FOMO, the newsletter by Alina.
[00:00:37] Um, Hey. We're having a harder and harder time selling SEO. It's something, right? So if you're thinking about new services, new ways of offering value to clients to make sure you can basically keep doing what you love doing, I think you're going to like this episode.
[00:00:59] Okay,
[00:01:00] so what's the topic of this episode? Is it maybe something everyone is scared of, which is probably Big query.
[00:01:12] well, it's that, or generative AI, or core updates, everything scares us, right? So, yes, yes, we're gonna be talking about BigQuery, because you and I were, we're talking about this, and while I'm going a different route, like I'm exploring the tool, I'm learning in public, I'm doing some stuff, you're exploring in private.
[00:01:34] I want to hear what you've been up to with BigQuery.
[00:01:38] Yeah, so I am a minimalist, as you probably know, so I like to look for simple solutions if I can, without spending too much time, because we all know that we, people with ADHD, if we start working on something, we can spend months on it, and currently I don't have time to spend months on BigQuery,
[00:02:02] there's something else, like if you work in an agency and somebody tells you, you have to learn this, they will give you the time because client is paying for it, you need to blah, blah, blah. But what if you realize that, Hey, something's wrong, but nobody's willing to give you the time at work to learn this.
[00:02:22] That's a danger when you have ADHD because you're going to spend all of this time learning all of this and you can't monetize the knowledge and if you're in a situation similar to you and I as consultants, you're like, if I take the time to learn this, how much am I not billing this week? So I'm with you on this.
[00:02:43] You're a minimalist because you're pragmatic. You're like, Hey, let me see if it works first.
[00:02:47] Silence.
[00:03:08] keep all that data. the data is now stored, so I will have the data which goes beyond those 18 months.
[00:03:16] And I have like full data, as full data as you can get with Google Search Console data. So this is the way I use it. This tool has a very nice interface, a lot of pre built filters, kind of views, so Google Search Console data with that tool is way more actionable and easier to use and understand.
[00:03:38] And I don't have the limitations.
[00:03:39] What I love about what you're discussing is that you have found a tool that I, are they a sponsor to your newsletter or not yet?
[00:03:48] I think they should be, just
[00:03:50] I think they will be, yeah. I know the, the creator of that tool. We, we already, like, had a few episodes. So we, we are kind of working together. I'm not saying this to promote them. I use that tool for that reason precisely for all my clients. Silence.
[00:04:16] so I have to learn how to use the tool. And once you get into the tool, you're like, okay, I have to make sure that the data comes in right. How do I even make that sure? And then when you're in and you figured out the tool, you figured out the data, like how to set it up.
[00:04:31] Then you're like, Oh, I actually need to figure out the data. Like for real, like what's coming in, what does it look like? Where, how do I get the data out? You set it yourself, that tool, the interface is nice. So that solves one problem, but you can also actually analyze this data. You don't need to think about what you need to get out because it's, you have to think of BigQuery as a warehouse.
[00:04:58] Like it will dump the data in there. But it's kind of like a closet. If you don't organize it, you're going to be like spending a lot of time looking for stuff and the outfits you put together may not be good. So that's another source of frustration. You've set it all up like a technician and then you don't have the analytical mindset to go, what?
[00:05:19] Do I need to get out of this? How do I analyze it? So with this in mind, like the basics of the basics when it comes to big queries, figure out what you need it for. So as you said, cool, I'm getting most of the data, like the, I'm getting the most out of Google search console. And universally, that's true.
[00:05:41] Like the data that you're going to get in Google search console is heavily influenced by the filters. What's going on, what, what is a sampling, then you can actually sometimes get a lot more data in Google Analytics 4, depending on your setup, if you hook it up to connect the API, but the API still, it makes choices for you.
[00:06:04] So there's decisions that are made for you when you get that data. And then all of a sudden, all of those decisions are no longer made for you. So your life is not made easier. But also, there's less things that are hidden from you when you push that data into BigQuery. So with the tool, you set it yourself.
[00:06:22] You solve multiple problems. No need to learn the interface fully. No need to learn SQL. No need to learn how to think about the data because everything you could want as an SEO has already been pre thought for you. Your table is laid out. You're, you're ready to get cooking. You're good to go and
[00:06:42] Oh,
[00:07:04] how long did it take you to set
[00:07:05] it up?
[00:07:07] it's like one click setup. Basically, you just connect it to Google Search Console and that's all. Like, 30 seconds, I think.
[00:07:18] so I think that this is one of those things where if you're asking yourself, Hey, are there specific skills that I need to master before using this thing? No. No. Now I'm here for the other end of the debate though, because here's the reality. If you're dealing with. Enterprise SEO mandates, maybe that interface can help you, maybe you want to do more.
[00:07:47] Okay. And if you're dealing with clients that already have a very mature data culture. Then maybe they're still going to ask you to do this. So it really depends on your reality. But on my end, I've been obsessed with BigQuery and I'm not even the, like, I'm far from the best. Okay. I just, I want to do cool stuff.
[00:08:12] Like let's, let's compare. Okay. So one, one of the basic skills for me, cause I have like seven bullet points in my head regarding the specific skills you need to master. Once you. Decide, Hey, I'm going all in when it comes to, um, BigQuery. So I had a conversation with my partner. Um, we're working on BigQuery.
[00:08:37] pro to teach people how to use this. And we're like,
[00:08:41] Silence.
[00:08:57] myself questions that as an SEO, like for e commerce, could I use the Google merchant center data?
[00:09:03] Okay. So the stuff we get when we set up the feed, could I use that information and mash it up with Google search console to decide if I should be creating new. e commerce categories or subcategories in my store because here's the deal most people when they do SEO they're going to look at the keywords and go we need to create a category page but what if the category is not necessarily always the category like home office four years ago with the pandemic yeah although i see you smile because yes all of those products had nothing in common Unless you wanted to set up a home office.
[00:09:45] So this is why I ask myself these questions, because as an SEO, you want to have an edge and all of a sudden. What I find fascinating is knowing that I can get that Google search console data and get it into something else where I can mash it up with CRM data, with Google merchant center data, with Google ads data, with all of the, these other data sources to figure out, are there trends that I did not even pay attention to?
[00:10:14] Cause I couldn't switching the scope, leveling up how I do my data analysis, but that goes back to. Multiple skills that you should have to think about these things. Number one, you have to figure out how you want to bring value, right? What you want to be doing. But number two, you have to figure out the data sources that you want to integrate together, and if they can be, to solve the initial question.
[00:10:41] And number three, you actually have to build a query for it. And then you still need to make it visual. So everyone thinks, oh my God, if I get super good at BigQuery, It's going to be amazing and I'm going to make money. That's like saying, if I get super good at Microsoft Excel, I'm going to be making money as an SEO.
[00:11:05] Yes or no.
[00:11:05] No, yeah. Yeah. Like, unless you want to fix everyone's spreadsheets and that's your life. It's not, it's almost like a minimum viable product. You like, that's the minimum skill. You should be able to manipulate data. That's, that's it. So BigQuery in itself, it's a platform. It's a service. You got to learn it.
[00:11:27] Like it's an interface that you have to play with. Then you have SQL that you have to learn. Then data visualization is still a thing and you've been relying on tools all along to do it for you. And now you're kind of stuck having to do it. So I think that. What you're bringing up, um, when we discuss the tool is as an SEO, you should ask yourself, okay, is this going to help me improve the value that I bring, save me time, make me more rigorous, like help me, I don't know, get C level buy in, help me get a promotion, help, help me get more money in my job, get like, Whatever it is.
[00:12:05] Figure out if it's worth your time. If it's not, just recognize. That's a very useful tool. I really wish I could do A, B, C. Let me find a tool that I can pay that's gonna handle the dirty work for me. Because my value is somewhere else. So, that's the thing you realized, Olga. You're like, Hey, my value is not in learning all the BigQuery stuff.
[00:12:28] My value is in, let me extract the insights. I know already what I want. You're giving it to me. Let me pay you.
[00:12:35] The end.
[00:12:37] Yeah,
[00:12:38] I think that's a good way to, to interpret that, because, like, my goal currently is to have more free time, so that I can learn more things, because now I have clients, and the course now, to, to teach. to take care of and my resources, time resources are very limited.
[00:12:59] So totally. But tell me like,
[00:13:05] Silence.
[00:13:13] this is my ambition. What do I do? How do I get started? Do I like reach, reach out to you? Do I read your Article on, I think, Search Engine Journal, there was an article about that, or a couple.
[00:13:25] The next one is like, launching, what do I do?
[00:13:30] So first of all, you, even before we discuss this, you have to ask yourself, because when I hear you, you're like, Hey, I, my clients, I, my courses, what we didn't discuss is that you're kind of famous for being a very technical SEO. Right? So that takes some upkeep.
[00:13:47] Okay. Okay.
[00:13:56] courses. Cause you have like, you have a sandbox, you have so much documentation, you have so many resources available online for Google Analytics for in BigQuery. Google search console. I mean, you have like, I'm going to say like five dudes that I know. But no SEO data, Google search console data and BigQuery very well. Most of the people that I know who know BigQuery, I'm, I'm talking agnostic, not SEOs, just in marketing. I come to them. I'm like, yeah, but there's this problem like with, with the schema, like the way it's set up and they're like staring at me, like, and I'm like, Oh, you don't, you don't, okay. You don't know this data.
[00:14:42] Okay. So let me explain it to you. And. My reality at the moment is while I have enjoyed a very long career in SEO and I really I started doing content when nobody was paying for content. Then I moved on to technical SEO and I'm bored. I'm bored because generative AI is asking you questions I'm fascinated by.
[00:15:05] But at the same time, you see the ecosystem reacting to all of this generated spam. And you're like, how am I even? Even able to convince people to do good content. Now, if the visibility is going lower, if we're organizing ourselves more towards traditional branding, when it comes to ads, it's like creating, you know, going back to traditional marketing, creating good ads, let us figure you out, figure out all the, all the hard little settings, all of this performance max is going to do.
[00:15:33] Okay. So AI is everywhere. Cool. If you want to go into a more human, the more human side of marketing, It's going to get very quickly clogged up by people who want to do traditional marketing and you know, you see it come back. Cool. I want to bring a new spin to this, but it needs to be built and the monetization models are not the same.
[00:16:01] So then like as an SEO, you're like, okay, I could either go back into the creative, kind of badly paid, unless you're at the top side, or I can go on the data side, but the data side, when you open your eyes, you realize. Well, there's a lot of smart people who are not getting paid very well, and they do SQL that I want to learn, so I'm a bit stressed, I'm a bit sad.
[00:16:23] That's the feedback I get in my DMs, and I'm like, well, yes! So, how do you provide value? How do you redefine what you bring to the table? And if you decide What I bring to the table is the ability to do the technical setup, the debug, but also have the creativity to look at my clients and go, these are the metrics we should follow, let me create new custom metrics, let me join new data sources together, and let me bring you value that you haven't seen before at a scope or at a scale you haven't seen before, then yes, invest your time in that skill set, but if not.
[00:17:07] Start with what you're doing, Onga. Set up the tool, get the lay of the land. Does this help you do your job, your main job? Yes. Do you like it so much that you actually wish that was your main gig? Then you should look into, okay, BigQuery is going to be something that I'm going to specialize in. Just like I decided one day, you know what?
[00:17:27] Technical SEO is what I want to do. Cause it was more fun for me. I saw the opportunities. So now that I said this. Now, before you go and run and buy like the pre sale of BigQuery. pro, before you follow a course with Brighton SEO, before all of this, please be realistic, folks. Start by figuring out what do I need to make this a success.
[00:17:51] So it's kind of like a barbecue. I love it when people are like, I bought the latest barbecue. I'm so excited to start barbecuing. And I'm laughing because I have some of these friends who had never had a real barbecue before. Smoke will get in your eyes and they were not ready. So you have all the setup and then you cannot even overcome obstacle number one, which makes sense.
[00:18:14] I'm going to get smoke in my eyes. So before we start crying for BigQuery, you need to figure out, okay, can I make the queries? That's SQL. Do you need to become a sequel specialist? No, it's on the same level as regular expressions. Get good enough that you're dangerous. Positive or negative, huh? But if you want to get started just play a game like Lost at Sequel by Robin.
[00:18:47] Robin Lord makes amazing games to help you understand the logic of the thing. Okay. And then once you're actually at least a little bit familiar to understand, what can you do? What can you ask? You need to understand the data architecture and This one I'm amazed by because whenever I say this, people are like, Oh, that sounds complicated.
[00:19:12] And it's like, no. Learning the data architecture is actually going to be beneficial for any SEO. Because if you create a Google Looker Studio, like you take a template and you connect Google search console, half of the time it doesn't work because, because you don't know the difference between sites and URL, the two options to set it up, you know why?
[00:19:38] Because these are two different tables. And once you actually do that homework, it doesn't matter if you start BigQuery or not, you will know Google Search Console better. You will understand why the data is the way it is. And once you have that, You need to figure out, okay, how do I integrate all of those data sources that I could mash up?
[00:19:59] What is the connector? Get the lay of the land. There's tools to help you with that. There's tools to help you create beautiful reports, but you still need to know how to show the data that you're querying. And tools have been handling this for us for so long that we think we know. Know. You need to really get smarter at this.
[00:20:21] And last but not least, privacy, data privacy, all those data breaches, they could also happen to you. As soon as you take the data outside of Google search console, it becomes your own data, you dump it in BigQuery, right? So you're responsible for it. So if there's a data breach there, that's on you and that's something new.
[00:20:42] Most SEOs are not used to dealing with. So look into these elements to figure out, okay. I'm ready to actually have fun with this and get started. But if you're not, and I see you all go going, Ooh, yeah, the data compliance bit, like I was not necessarily, there's a tool that you're going to pay that handles it for you.
[00:21:05] The tool that you're using, I'm pretty sure that they secure stuff or they make sure. Yeah. So if you look at all of this and you're like, Oh, this That sounds like way too much. I don't want to learn all of it. You don't need to. You need to figure out the minimum that you have to know out of every single item I have talked about.
[00:21:26] And then you're like, okay. That sounds like something I want to look into. Or you're like, hey, there's better people than me to do this. That's not where my value lies. I'm just going to get the minimum done, be able to do my job. That's not my job though. So I hope I circled around and got it out. What do you
[00:21:46] think?
[00:21:46] Silence.
[00:22:01] new. new trends, new, new insights you can discover thanks to, thanks to that data. And my question to you is, can you give an example, a real life example of what you were able to extract, like with what types of data and how it impacted a client, a business?
[00:22:24] So
[00:22:24] I'm not going to be able to give very detailed specifics, but I can tell you that I have one client that I love. They are in real estate and we noticed that whenever, so in North America, when we say that you're in real estate and that you rent, it's large projects. So let's say that we have a project called the Olga. The Olga can have five phases, five different buildings. So one project, five different buildings that are huge. What happens when one of the buildings is already 75 percent full? What happens when all of the buildings are reaching that 75 percent tile? So this, if you can actually like track it, which you can because every single unit and project is online for my client, it says unit A.
[00:23:12] Unavailable, rented out. So if you're rented out for more than a year or two, Google will drop you from their index now. Cause it's kind of like an e commerce product, right? So if you are sold out for two years, why would Google rank you? You're not answering the query, right? So imagine we don't want to run Google ads for potential clients, renters that are going to call us and at 75 percent chances are they're already all rented because it goes that fast.
[00:23:42] So Why would I spend money on this to make people angry? But at the same time, I need to keep an eye because if we're lower than 50%, then I have to look at indexation to make sure that my units are being indexed by Google again, that the phase is understood, all of this. So you can imagine how this data, it enters through my client system and then I pass it along to other platforms.
[00:24:09] Now, my Google ads, um, partner within the company. She gets an email saying, Hey, by the way, here are all the, the projects because it's not just one project, right? It's more than a hundred projects. So she knows what to turn on and off. And we're looking into automate, automating some of the bids, lowering them when we reach a critical status.
[00:24:32] That's what I'm talking about. Like develop metrics that help you run your business better. Was it expected that I, as the. SEO PPC consultant would come up with this. Well, that's why they pay me for that. Like that's, that's my value, but being able to do it. Thank you. BigQuery.
[00:24:54] Silence. Silence. Silence.
[00:24:56] Yes. So imagine. At scale, the type of stuff that you can do, does lowering our price for our product, so we can track the pricing in Google Merchant Center, does that impact our rankings because maybe we're seen as the better option to be shown.
[00:25:14] Better value, which if people are looking for best price, maybe we would be it. So how would I know that? I wouldn't, unless I put these two things together. Sources together. Another element that may sound a bit, um, unusual, but this one, I don't necessarily always use BigQuery. It's just a scenario.
[00:25:36] Silence.
[00:25:37] If you have a PPC team and an SEO team working together, you know, that Core web vitals is super important, but Google has a weighed system where CLS actually weighs more than other aspects.
[00:25:51] Okay, so they have a table available. They tell you it's 25%, but if you run a lot of Google ads, CLS is way more important for these teams. So how about you take Google's weighed system and you're like, cool. I'm an SEO. I know this is important to that degree. But I know that as marketers, what we care about, CLS is heavier.
[00:26:12] We also noticed that engineers asked us to monitor blah, blah, blah, because issues. You come up with a new weight system, a new score and your own web vitals. They're not going to weigh the same. You're not going to have a orange or a red on the same thresholds because once again, you're focusing on the health of your business.
[00:26:34] So this is, this is what I mean by measuring what matters. And BigQuery is simply a tool. It's one of many tools. Now I'm going to take you with one last example that is magnificent for me. So when you're able to do that type of stuff, you can do what Spotify did. And I'm pretty sure you haven't necessarily heard of that.
[00:26:58] Did you know that there's around 6, 000 musical genres in Spotify?
[00:27:05] I don't use Spotify, so I don't know. Oh,
[00:27:13] And I'm like, no, no one would name a musical sound stimming. This is clearly an activity that people who are on the spectrum do. Okay, cool. So what did Spotify do? They mashed up listening patterns. They mashed up other data coming from like the metadata from the songs to figure out, okay, but we're clustering this to figure out.
[00:27:41] What is the next song we want to show you? Based on what you've already listened to, what are you most likely to enjoy? And so instead of creating genuine labels for the music, which we would call musical genres, their project led to a labeling of 6, 000 different types. But not according to how they sound, according to how people react to it and the sound and other elements, because at the end of the day, for them, that label, that musical genre, is just something that we use.
[00:28:19] To make recommendations and it's having an impact on society because now people are actually adopting these labels as genuine song types. So that's the power of figuring out your metrics, right? And at the end of the day. That's what BigQuery is for. BigQuery is not for you to be incrementally like 5 percent to 10 percent more efficient with your clients.
[00:28:49] And that's why they should go to you. It's the ability for you to get smart and provide. Better value. Align with the expected value that your client has for you. If you're now able to do this, this, this, this, this way better, of course they want to work with you. But if you're still doing it old school, traditional, here are the metrics that all SEOs agree on, you're not bringing value anymore.
[00:29:20] And that's why there's a crisis. And that's why I'm here talking about, okay, before you jump into anything thinking that is going to be making you more money. Figure out where the money's at, figure out where the value is at. Cause I see you Olga right now. I see you going, Oh, Oh, maybe, maybe we need to talk together about e commerce clients now, because yes, we could absolutely go through and tell clients, you know what, just like Spotify, you need micro lending pages with all these different aesthetics and vines and et cetera.
[00:29:52] What if we could, what if we noticed that? And that is. That is something that I'm fascinated by, by the way. Um, I'm really interested in to neurodivergent shopping. If you had a landing page telling me all of these are really soft, non scratchy sweaters for this winter. Yes. Right. If I told you this.
[00:30:14] Sunscreen is not going to sting your eyes, and it's not going to have that weird sticky feeling on your face the whole day. I'm buying! So that's what I mean by clustering products according to categories, where you don't, like, these categories, they don't make sense. Unless you're neurodivergent, but then there's also the, uh, the, I want to be goth at work, corporate goth.
[00:30:40] That is also a category. So you see what I mean? Like we answer needs differently and, and let's take it one step further. And this is the reason why people love working with me. How about we take all of the data you already have in merchant center, right? And we create these clusters and then we use Google search console with the data we already have once again, going.
[00:31:02] Are there any keywords we have opportunities for those labels that we can stick on the cluster? Awesome. Wait, it gets even better. What if we check those new recommendations that we make because they're realistic, Google Search Console, but what if we check that they're coherent with your current website architecture so that like non sticky sunscreen It has to make sense, right?
[00:31:29] So how about the priority categories that we're going to test? We're making sure that they align with what you already have, Monsieur le client. And all of a sudden, yeah, your work has value. It's not just saying I'm the best and I have made a recommendation and you're kind of dumb for not listening to it.
[00:31:48] Which is what most SEOs do. They should have listened to me. Yeah. Okay. Deliver your recommendations in a way, in a moment to the right people where they can actually become actionable. That's where your value is. If you can't do that, maybe you're the best, but you're useless.
[00:32:08] Couldn't agree more. Yeah. It's like with an audit. It doesn't matter how great it is and what you uncover if they don't implement it. It's useless.
[00:32:19] Yes,
[00:32:20] and that's my problem. I, I used to hate looking at previous audits from previous websites, but I would ask my clients because if they send me the last audit, I can tell what they didn't listen to already. And if I'm making the same recommendation, yes, thank you. Like, you're like, okay, let me make sure that you clearly understand me because this person was too busy trying to impress me and not you.
[00:32:42] Like, with that audit, that's a beautiful audit for another SEO to read.
[00:32:46] That's it.
[00:32:47] Yeah, exactly. Okay, Miriam. So any final thoughts, any final conclusions?
[00:32:56] Well! If you want to know more, there are three articles on Search Engine Journal that explain to you, okay, here's how you think about, like, here's the exact process to think about your use cases, and then gather the data sources or the metrics that you need to make it happen. So if you want to do that, the basics, it's there.
[00:33:18] If you want to take it further and get training, it's on BigQuery. pro. So if you or your team need this, and last but not least, if you actually want to think of cool metrics that you can, you know, implement within your company, because the other ones don't make sense for you anymore, call me or call Olga.
[00:33:40] We're there
[00:33:41] for you.
[00:33:42] Yeah, exactly, very awesome. So thank you so much. And I think we'll probably have to have another episode about that because this topic is like never ending, I would say,
[00:33:55] I think we should do a, uh, cool metrics that you should be using if you want to improve your SEO.
[00:34:01] Yeah.
[00:34:02] definitely. Okay, so thanks everyone and see you in the next episode. Bye bye
