Olga-Charles - Made with Clipchamp
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[00:00:00] Olga: Hi everyone. It's Olga Zarr from SEOSLY. This is SEO podcast by SEO Sly. Today, I have a very special guest. This is Charles. Charles, how are you doing today? SEO Sly, SEO done right. I'm Olga Zarr, an SEO consultant in SEO since 2012. Don't forget to subscribe to learn SEO for free with me. Now let's get into the show.
[00:00:27] Charles: I'm doing good. Thank you. I hope you're doing good as well, Olga.
[00:00:30] Olga: Thank you. So, in case someone doesn't know you very well, can you like briefly introduce yourself to the audience?
[00:00:38] Charles: Yep. So I've been doing SEO for about 16 years at this point. Um, I started when I was a teenager working for my family business and uh, ended up getting a career very early on, became head of SEO at 17, and then became an entrepreneur at 18 and started just building my own businesses, consultancy, affiliate websites, courses, training, um, all sorts of stuff and partnerships and things.
[00:01:02] Charles: And now I have my own SaaS businesses and stuff as well. So I've kind of transitioned throughout my career from a, an in house SEO and SEO agency all the way now to being an SEO entrepreneur and investor.
[00:01:13] Olga: So can you maybe tell me more? about what is it that you are doing now in more detail?
[00:01:20] Charles: Yeah, so right now, my day to day is a bit crazy.
[00:01:25] Charles: I kind of manage like six different businesses. I work on consulting. I also do, um, my own affiliate portfolio and CPA portfolio, which is an international portfolio. So most of our websites aren't actually even in English. Um, because I find that the international SERPs are just so much easier to rank in and more comfortable than English SERPs.
[00:01:48] Charles: And, uh, in terms of my English side, I, I do a lot of PowerSite SEO. So that's basically, you know, ranking with other people's websites that are high authority on my own. And then the rest of the time is just trolling Google and other SEO people on Twitter. Okay. Okay.
[00:02:05] Olga: Okay. Perfect. So, so it looks like there will be at least three topics for today.
[00:02:10] Olga: I definitely wanted to ask you a little bit about Black Hat SEO, because I, I think this is something a lot of people associate with you. But you are also, well into affiliate SEO. So I would love to hear your thoughts on that and parasite SEO. So let's start with black hat SEO. How would you, given, the experience you have, how would you define black hat SEO, what, what it is?
[00:02:39] Charles: Yeah, personally, I come from the definition that white hat SEO is doing SEO within Google's guidelines. Blackout SEO is doing it outside of Google's guidelines and not really caring for Google's guidelines at all. Gray hat is, you know, a bit on the fence about it. Maybe you built links, but you didn't buy them kind of thing.
[00:03:01] Charles: Um, and then you have illegal hat, which is doing, you know, like the malware infecting stuff and the redirects to fraud links and stuff like that.
[00:03:10] Olga: Yeah. I haven't thought about that. Like that last piece. what were like kind of the most interesting Black Hat SEO tactics that worked well in the past?
[00:03:21] Olga: Uh, the ones you mentioned. used to like, apply in your work, but which you probably are not using anymore, or maybe you are using all of them. Can you share?
[00:03:32] Charles: Yeah, 100%. I used to like the old days of automated link building, like I used to do a lot of I would have my own custom VPSs, like a remote VPS server.
[00:03:42] Charles: And I would set up, you know, GSA and Exarema and various automated link building software tools, and just, you know, build hundreds of thousands, if not millions of links within the space of a week or so, and that used to rank websites really, really well. And I'm talking, you know, you could. Create a domain name, rank it for a hundred thousand search a month keyword within a couple of weeks, just by spamming millions of links.
[00:04:07] Charles: Cause this is pre penguin days. Um, and pre kind of Google dealing with a lot of link spam days. And there are still some levels of automated link building that you can do now, but I don't do any of them. It's not, you know, the case that it's, that it's really worthwhile to be doing it at this stage. And Google kind of have got this.
[00:04:27] Charles: Thing where they, if the, so I tried to do it and I tried to look at it as the more unnatural triggers that you do at a campaign, the more likely that Google is to clock on and you can't really control a lot of the automated link buildings. Um stuff that you're doing it ends up building a lot of links that are like spammy and dodgy and you know They've got random characters and things in the links and they've got uh, jupyter content and that kind of stuff So a lot of that creates these unnatural triggers which obviously because automated it's more en masse So it's a lot easier for google to catch you with those kind of campaigns So most of the kind of black hat stuff we're doing these days is again just like parasite seo buying links, um, doing some like content tricks, doing internal making expired domains, age domains, that kind of redirect still work amazingly.
[00:05:15] Charles: It's pretty surprising that Google have released like six updates at this point in the documentation. It says they're coming after expired domains and redirects and things and they still work like it's, they, they haven't successfully come after them at all across At this point, which is like six different updates, which they've said they're targeting it, but we've seen no evidence that they've had success targeting it because we use them all day, every day, and they work fantastically.
[00:05:42] Olga: Because like, this was supposed to be my next question, like, what, what are your observations after that? most recent update and I think Google started introducing this, site abuse, like parasite SEO kind of ban, let's say, like recently, I don't know, a few days ago or something like that. With that respect, have you noticed something?
[00:06:03] Olga: Because I, I have, Heard some things like from Barry Schwartz like that big sites are getting banned So what are your observations on that?
[00:06:15] Charles: Yeah, so in terms of the March updates, the the first thing is that they say They acted as if they were very long and actually it turned out that they weren't that long.
[00:06:25] Charles: It turned out that it was like two weeks or something, but they just didn't announce it. It turns out that that announcement may not have been because they didn't want to announce it on an earnings call to do with their stock price and things, which is dodgy in and of itself. Um, but the March spam updates didn't really seem to do anything like from what it said in the documentation.
[00:06:44] Charles: It didn't actually. Do any of what it said. So like, like you said, it said it was targeting expired domains. It said it was targeting redirects. It said it was targeting, um, AI content and spam content and things like that. But we didn't see any of those things. It said it was targeting actually targeted in the SERPs.
[00:07:00] Charles: In terms of the March core update, that had a lot more of a profound effect on the SERPs, but it wasn't necessarily removing spam and removing that. Pages. It was just replacing them with other spam with the bad pages. Right? So it doesn't necessarily have that much of an effect. And there's various keywords right now that you can type in to Google.
[00:07:23] Charles: For example, you could type in fit press on right now into Google, and it will just come up with forum spam, forum, spam, forum, spam, forum. And this is a product that is a pretty massive product. You know, it's on Amazon. It gets about, you know, I think 50, 000 searches a month or something for Google. And it's just completely dominated.
[00:07:40] Charles: By spam. And a lot of that is forum spam because Google turned up UGC content signals so much that it now allows you to, if you can go and post on some quite high authority forums, they now rank for basically anything as well, which again, a lot of, a lot of this stuff around like forums, ranking Reddit, ranking these high authority sites, ranking parasite ranking is the opposite of what Google is saying around helpful content.
[00:08:06] Charles: Because if helpful content, if that's real, and they are actually determining effects on helpful content, then why is the same content ranking so well on gigantically high authority sites, but if you put it on a small blog, that arguably that blog might be more of an expert in that content than the, you know, the large blog.
[00:08:25] Charles: Newspaper site is why does that blog not perform, right? So I so I don't really believe in the whole helpful content narrative and things that google be pushing because it doesn't make sense When you look at all of the other sites that have been ranking as a result of it in terms of the site reputation abuse stuff so far google Themselves have only taken action against coupon directory sites and it's manual actions against coupon sites I don't do any coupon stuff.
[00:08:52] Charles: So it's not affecting me You There have been a few sites that I have bought posts off of that have now removed their directories and are no longer selling posts. But that's again, that's Google's propaganda and it's manual actions. It's not the algorithm, right? Like the algorithm is still favoring these websites and there's still loads of websites out there that haven't deleted posts that haven't been hit by Google.
[00:09:13] Charles: And again, a lot of these actions are in English. So all of the other languages, those websites are still there. They're not going to be manually hit by Google's English search quality team. And they're still going to continue to thrive post updates and things. So there are a lot of this action is. Just again, it's manual actions and the algorithm isn't actually doing what is happening.
[00:09:34] Charles: And if you go outside of the English kind of sphere, all of these other countries are still kind of suffering and a lot of the countries actually have got malware and kind of fraud and stuff now just in every kind of stuff. It's really, And a lot of the big brands in Asia, especially are really suffering because fraudsters and hackers are getting expired domains, recreating their brand's homepage on these expired domains, ranking them and sometimes even outranking the brand name for their own brand and then getting users to log in.
[00:10:07] Charles: And stealing the login information from their users, which is then used to kind of steal money from the users or steal funds or things. It's also, it's quite complicated and it's quite, um, I think it's kind of surface level PR kind of announcements from Google and releases and it doesn't affect. the rest of the world.
[00:10:28] Charles: It's only, you know, the U S and the UK that's really affected by a lot of those stuff. And even then it's just the sites that Google hits and all the other ones that, you know, left to, to collaborate.
[00:10:38] Olga: Yeah. I can attest to that when it comes to like Polish search results. Yeah. That's true. I have a few Polish websites and I can definitely say that, yeah, it is way easier to rank a non English website.
[00:10:52] Olga: But talking about, that, can you, share what other languages you are targeting or countries?
[00:11:00] Charles: Yeah. So I target high GDP per capita countries that generally, um, primarily have another language X outside of English. And that use Google. So for example, Japan, isn't a great country for me because they don't primarily use Google.
[00:11:16] Charles: They primarily use Yahoo. Um, and there's loads of regulations in Japan around, you know, gambling and things like that. So you can't really do a lot of the niches that I like to do. Um, but then, so, so countries that I like to operate in are countries like Norway, Kuwait, Qatar, Saudi, things like that. Um, anywhere where, again, they just have a high GDP per capita.
[00:11:37] Charles: So the average person is maybe earning or getting paid over 75, 000 a year. But they don't speak English and that they generally use Google. So it's a lot easier to rank. It's a lot easier to make money. And some of the affiliate offers and the CPA offers that you can get in those other languages and other markets, they're significantly behind.
[00:11:55] Charles: You know, the English markets, which have a lot more controls and regulations and, and pay less commissions a lot of the time. So sometimes actually you get paid a lot more commissions, especially for dealing with places like Norway than you do in the US or the UK.
[00:12:09] Olga: Interesting. And like in total, can you estimate how many websites you have?
[00:12:15] Charles: Yeah, so I'm actively right now in international SERPs. I have like probably like 18 or 20 websites. In English SERPs, I've got like maybe like five or ten. that I actually care about, right? I've got like 100 or 200 test websites that I just throw stuff out. Like we use AI content. We use Parasite. We use all sorts of random stuff just to see what happens in niches.
[00:12:39] Charles: So we have ongoing single variable testing stuff as well.
[00:12:43] Olga: Can you talk about, about some of those tests? Like what's, what examples, what tests have you done recently and what did you learn?
[00:12:52] Charles: Yeah, so the single variable testing is ongoing where we have one element on a single page and that domain is ranking versus other domains for a keyword that no other page is apart from our test pages are ranking for and then whenever an Update happens or there's volatility or we think there's something called, you know, phantom updates Where Google doesn't actually announce anything, but there's really big volatility in the search.
[00:13:15] Charles: Um, we try and look at our single variable testing to see what changed. So if we see, you know, all of our niche edit pages are down, probably affecting these edits, right? All of our title pages changed. It may be affected page titles, all of our pages with tons of content on them. It may be affected content, right?
[00:13:33] Charles: So it allows us to get more, just an overview look very quickly at what changed. Algorithm updates and set volatility changed and then we can kind of backtrack and look for examples of things from the data um outside in the real world outside of those single world tests from our Testing in terms of seo stuff.
[00:13:53] Charles: It's random So like we'll we'll just come up with ideas and start testing stuff. And then i'm also in loads of Discord groups and WhatsApp groups and Skype groups and things where everyone's just testing theories and like throwing stuff at each other all the time. And whenever Google announces something, there's always chatter going on and stuff, right?
[00:14:10] Charles: So you've, I've always got this constant kind of feedback loop of, uh, what's happening in the SERPs and what's going on.
[00:14:17] Olga: And any, any particular example of like your, something you noticed recently, like for example with Google Helpful Content Update, you have like, yeah.
[00:14:29] Charles: Yeah. So, so with Helpful Content, we managed to basically, we just moved domain names.
[00:14:35] Charles: So we just threw on the website that got hit by Helpful Content to a new website and we changed the URLs. So we didn't, so you can do something called a wild card throw one. Which is going to make sure that the urls are the same on the new domain that it's going into but we didn't do that We did exact um matchups to the 301s and then we did new urls So that Google didn't associate the classifier with the new domain based on new old URLs, and it's worked.
[00:15:03] Charles: So we've actually recovered a website from HCU just by redirecting it to another domain. It's not doing as much traffic as it was, but we think that's because the new domain doesn't have the link authority and the trustworthiness and stuff that the old domain had. But we've managed to recover traffic when nobody else in our niche has.
[00:15:21] Charles: Um, and then we've also kind of done tests around helpful content in terms of does it affect new websites? And so far we've found that it doesn't. So you can't seemingly get a helpful content classifier negatively applied to your website on a new domain or a new website. We've been trying and it, and it doesn't seem to work.
[00:15:44] Charles: We should put all the, all the low quality content on there and Google still likes it.
[00:15:51] Olga: Interesting. Okay. And what about AI generated content? I'm pretty sure you are experiment, experimenting with that as well. What are your kind of thoughts, conclusions?
[00:16:04] Charles: Yeah. So I own like full, you know, open, uh, open, full transparency.
[00:16:08] Charles: I own a SAS that does AI SEO content. So I own that copper and we've got about 1800 paying customers or so right now that, that, um, actually use copper exclusively to create AI content for the SEO sites or for the parasite page and things like that, what we've found is that number one, most of the AI content sites that Google hit.
[00:16:31] Charles: Where again, there were manual actions. There was about 500, 000 manual actions that took place in February and March. And they were mostly against bulk AI content sites. But again, this is manual actions. They're not algorithmic hits. So it's, it's actually a really bad look when Google has to use manual actions to clean something up because it proves to everybody that the algorithm can't do it.
[00:16:57] Charles: They have to get a team of engineers. In person to actually clean this up, the, the algorithm isn't working. And it just means that they clean up a portion of it and a portion of it is still existing and still ranks and still works. So it's kind of an indicator that actually if you will do manually go after something.
[00:17:15] Charles: That you should probably start doing exactly that because Google have done their kind of, uh, done their cleanup. And now they're probably not going to look at that again. And you should be the one to use it. And we've seen a lot of people doing that, right? So we've seen a lot of people kind of, uh, doing after the big manual actions, actually seeing success from, from AI content sites.
[00:17:34] Charles: From what, what I personally do, I don't do bulk AI content because it's, it's just a pain in the ass. And again, there's these. Unnatural triggers that even if it's not helpful content, even if it's not, um, you know, these major core updates and stuff, Google still has quality signals. Baked into the algorithm and if you're publishing bulk content, it's going to mean on average that your quality signals per page You're going to drastically go down because you're not going to have the manual image optimization the formatting The internal linking all of this stuff that contributes to that quality score and you're not going to have it So we much prefer using ai content either for parasite pages where we can just get free parasites like linkedin and medium and reddit and core and things like that and just Put AR content on it and it writes and Google doesn't care.
[00:18:22] Charles: Um, or we use it for link building because it's really cheap to go instead of paying, you know, 50, a hundred dollars for a writer to write a really good guest post, I can just get it made for 50 cents. We cover, so it doesn't make sense to do that anymore. Right. And then we've also done a lot of like tier two link building and stuff where you do like web 2.
[00:18:40] Charles: 0s or YouTube video descriptions, all that kind of stuff. We use AR content for, and then even when it comes to, you know, CRO and social media and stuff like that. I've tried to bake into my VA's SOPs that when they're creating landing pages or when they're creating parasite pages for our campaigns, that they're running it through like chat GPT.
[00:18:59] Charles: They're exporting the pages of PDF, running it through chat GPT and asking it for improvements and just trying to see how we can improve our landing pages. If we can get better conversion rates, we can get better commissions. Things like that. So I've been trying to actively use AI across all of our businesses because I think it just makes everybody more efficient and it makes everybody better at their job and it makes all the outputs better and it makes, and it makes all our costs go down and it means we don't have to have as many people and as much time and as much resource waste and things and stuff, right?
[00:19:26] Olga: Yeah, totally. I think it only makes it difficult for Google because like Google has to crawl all of that content, process it, maybe index some of it. And, talking about AI tools, so what's your favorite one? You mentioned ChatGPT, but what about Gemini, Claude, Bing, like what's your favorite?
[00:19:50] Charles: ChatGPT is just the, the original, it's the GOAT, right? Gemini is just too, They've got to be like safety precautions and too much like, um, they had, they obviously had a recent case where they were creating like Chinese Nazis and like black Nazis things with the images and stuff. That's not great. Right.
[00:20:09] Charles: That's obviously because they're putting in biases. That they don't realize a bias, like they're trying to not be biased by being biased. Like it's so, it's so stupid that it's, that this is the issue and you see it play out. So I try to use Gemini for a lot of things and I think Gemini is the best at research because it has seemingly the biggest dataset and it has seemingly the access to like real time, um, web browsing and it's really fast and it's really quick, but it's, it's just bias.
[00:20:39] Charles: So it makes your output. Like worse. And even though it has, you know, nice formatting and it looks clean and it looks cool and stuff, and it's fast and it loads like magic and stuff, right. And it's got the cool animations and things. The output itself is worse because of those safety precautions. And because of the biases that the Google team have put into it.
[00:20:57] Charles: And we see that routinely with everything that we do. Um, so we just can't use it. Like we we've, unless again, we use something called prompt injection So unless we literally hack. Gemini to make an output what we want it to and make it stop using those safety precautions, we just can't use it. But training VAs on how to do that is, is a, you know, is a nightmare in itself.
[00:21:20] Charles: And then it's against Google's policy. So they can end up like banning your accounts and stuff anyway, which is not, you know, not the best. Um, so yeah, so we just use chat. So you can see, I do use Claude for quite a lot of stuff. I found that Claude is very good for writing. And that it's very, and it doesn't have a lot of the inherent biases and things that the other stuff has, and it's, it's better for, um, kind of the older traditional style of information because it doesn't have access to the web and it doesn't have access to browsing and stuff.
[00:21:45] Charles: So you get less of a kind of, you know, a less, um, real time approach, which is better for evergreen content and things like that, but we, yeah, so in general, just chat, GPT is the goat and it's the king of everything, right. But there's lots of other tools that are good for specific, you know, Things is also like we use Descript for video.
[00:22:03] Olga: Oh, yeah. Yeah
[00:22:03] Charles: use it was like fireflies for Meeting recording and note taking and things like that. There's lots of different tools out there that are ready We started using osm recently. It's called osum. ai Which is like a Market insights tool. So it can basically, so, you know, if you have a new niche or something, it will give you audience demographics and market breakdowns and all this analysis and reporting of like, um, user journeys and things and stuff, but it's automated with AI.
[00:22:31] Charles: So what used to take, you know, it used to cost you like 25, 000 to hire an agency to create these custom user journeys and all this crazy things. Now you pay for this AI like 50 a month. And it's, and it's just, it's just, just as good. Honestly, it's really, really good. It's got this thing called like a SWOT analysis suite and it's honestly, it's, it's a fantastic, but again, a lot of these tools are just the beginning and we're just seeing kind of how this technology is being adapted.
[00:22:57] Charles: And I think in two to three years, everything will be integrated. Everything will be kind of, um, much faster, much better. All the hardware will catch up with the software and things as well. So everything will be integrated with AI in some way or another.
[00:23:11] Olga: Definitely. And coming back to what you, mentioned previously, Can you talk about the quality, Google quality signals a little bit more?
[00:23:20] Olga: You mentioned a few, but if you can expand on that a little bit.
[00:23:24] Charles: Yes. So Google, uh, essentially in its patents, this is a very simplified version, right? In its patents, it assigns a quality score. To each page. And if you've ever used Google ads, you'll know that it actually does assign a quality score in Google ads to each page.
[00:23:40] Charles: And it's like a relevancy score to the, to the term of things, very similar thing to Google. It just decides the quality score to each page. And then based on all of your pages, you get an overall. Kind of site quality score baseline. So if, if, you know, one page is a 40 out of 100 and another page is a 50 out of 100, you might have an overall quality score of like 48.
[00:24:00] Charles: 67 or something like that. Right. And the aim is that you just have a higher and higher and higher quality score, because the primary goal is that Google will cruelly more, they'll index you more, they'll trust you more, all of those kinds of things, because you're reducing. and it's, and it's the whole kind of thing of cool efficiency, but it's also that all of your pages are now just better.
[00:24:22] Charles: So it means that you have got better pages than your competitors on average, overall and quality score depends on the type of page you're editing and you're making. It might be very different for a category page than a blog post and a product page, right? But key premises. are that you have optimized title tags within the character length.
[00:24:42] Charles: You've got schema and microdata that hasn't got any, uh, errors and that hasn't got, and that can be validated 100 percent perfectly. You've got good load time. That means you've got green Core Web Vitals. You've got good content that is formatted well and easily for Google to crawl. You've got images that aren't massive and that don't take ages to crawl.
[00:25:01] Charles: And optimized from old tags. Uh file names captions the whole lot. Um, and then you have other things like rich media So you have youtube videos soundcloud embeds all of that kind of stuff as well that can contribute To your overall quality score and in general, you're just improving individual pages And again, this isn't like blackout at all.
[00:25:20] Charles: It's very very white like fundamental
[00:25:22] Olga: seo Exactly,
[00:25:25] Charles: um and what we try and do As part of that strategy is that whenever we're launching new websites, we're building them in staging websites first. And we're trying to just get the entire website as high a quality score as possible so that when we do publish it, our baseline quality score from day one of indexing day one of crueling is as high as it possibly can be.
[00:25:46] Charles: And ideally, and what we've seen as a result of that is that we start ranking considerably faster. Then if you obviously get a website index and it's just the homepage, then you put the about page live. Then you do it kind of incrementally. If you just put everything live from day one, and that doesn't necessarily mean your content, right?
[00:26:01] Charles: You do still want publishing frequency and freshness and things around, around your content and your blog posts and stuff, right? I don't mean just go and post a thousand blog posts on day one of your website, space that out a bit. Um, but all of your core pages that Google needs to understand about your business and to understand your products and your services and, and about everything about your site.
[00:26:20] Charles: Should be live and it should be there and indexable and linked together and well done
[00:26:25] Olga: I hear a lot of people talk about they have problems with indexing and Have you also noticed that that new sites get those problems? And maybe is it related to the quality score you have been talking about?
[00:26:41] Olga: What are your observations?
[00:26:43] Charles: 100 it does definitely help Next, the, so I would say the issue with new sites getting indexed is more of an issue if you're in certain niches, right? So if you're in like YMIL niches, it's considerably more difficult to get Google to trust your website in the first place to get you indexed for those niches.
[00:27:03] Charles: You can do everything perfectly on your website from day one, but you're not going to rank for casino keywords or like, you know, cancer treatment keywords and things like that on day one. That's just not going to happen. Um, the reason generally, again, is because Google doesn't trust your website. And so.
[00:27:18] Charles: The only way to get Google to trust your website from day one is for other websites that Google does trust to link to you and to give you authority signals and to give you trust signals and to push that relevancy and that trust onto your website. A lot of people think that that, you know, that means, Oh, I've got to go get the BBC to link to me tomorrow, right?
[00:27:37] Charles: When my website goes live. That's not true at all. You can build a lot of links that are free to build. They're just things like social profiles, like LinkedIn, Twitter, Pages for your company and citations and directory listings and things like that. That all contribute to Google trusting your website.
[00:27:53] Charles: And that, again, they're just contributing to Google, understanding your entity. And that's the main thing is to just get Google to understand your entity. So your brand, and generally you get indexing and ranking. And we found that if we do a combination of the quality score stuff. So before we launched the site, we get the page.
[00:28:11] Charles: But then we get all the pages live and as good quality as possible so that when we do launch the website, we get that high quality for baseline. But when we mix that with entity stacking based link building, so that's just again, like social profiles, your citations, press release, maybe, um, any kind of directory websites, any kind of reference websites, maybe even like Reddit profiles.
[00:28:32] Charles: Things like that, that you can get linking to your website. If you can get those live on the same day, we've got traffic to our website on day one of it going live. We've got ranking in keywords, you know, number three, number two, on the same day that our website has gone live. So using those in combination with each other.
[00:28:47] Charles: But again, that's not in YML niches.
[00:28:50] Olga: So no sandbox in this case.
[00:28:52] Charles: Nope. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
[00:28:54] Olga: Okay. Can you talk a little bit about how you do Parasite SEO?
[00:29:02] Charles: Yep. So, um, generally speaking, we approach Parasite SEO depending on the niche, right? So some niches, it might require just some free Parasite pages.
[00:29:14] Charles: So you could just rank with like a LinkedIn post article and maybe a core, core article, some, some stuff like that. Right. Those niches could literally just be that easy. And it, and all it takes is an article. Again, it could be AI generated and just some human editing. You could do it in an hour. Like it's not, it's really fast and it's really quite, uh, scary how popular it is.
[00:29:33] Charles: In terms of other niches that are a lot more competitive. That's when you're going to be needing to, you know, pay for large news articles, large news organizations, those kinds of things to create sponsored content for you, editorials, um, and put them live. Generally speaking, a lot of the websites that Google are hitting right now are the websites that people were talking about and that we, they were using like a year ago, right?
[00:29:54] Charles: Outlook India, for example, everybody knows it in SEO. But all the people that I know that are black cat and parasite itself, they haven't been using it for six plus months, right? We, we, we move on to websites very quickly with parasite because some websites work amazingly during some updates and some work amazingly during the next update.
[00:30:13] Charles: So all you do is you just transition to whatever website works best at the time. And because they're very cheap in comparison to the profit that you can make from these pages. Right. It's you could pay 500 for an article to be published on one of these large news publications. And that article could make you 500 a day from commission.
[00:30:32] Charles: It's, it's, it's genuinely that much, uh, that high ROI and things. So generally speaking, we just try to find whatever parasites are going to work best for the niche. We then figure out how much money we can make. from the niche. So we do, we do forecasting and we try and work out our profitability from that niche.
[00:30:49] Charles: And we see how much money we're going to make from ranking the page versus if, if we're going to actually pay for pay as we rank, right? So that gives us an idea about which niches we should approach and which niches we should kind of clear away from because there are some niches That we can only find sites that are wanting 5, 000 a post for, right?
[00:31:07] Charles: That will rank number one, guaranteed. We're going to rank number one within a month using this, these sites. Um, but the niche might make a 2, 000 a month. So it doesn't make sense to spend 5, 000 on a post where you're going to make 2, 000 and you might make 2, 000 that's forecasted from your calculations and they could be wrong.
[00:31:27] Charles: And those calculations, even if they're wrong about 10, 20%, that's a lot of a lot of cash flow. So we try to just go for the safest and best bets. And generally that's paid off quite well for us. Um, and again, we've put maybe, you know, over the last two years, we probably put like a hundred, 150, 000 into parasite pages and we've 10x that pretty easily, to be honest.
[00:31:49] Olga: And do you use LinkedIn a lot?
[00:31:52] Charles: Yep. LinkedIn pulse has been awesome for the last year or so, like literally since the August update last year, I did a video on my YouTube channel in August last year. And I was like, if you're not losing LinkedIn pulse, you are going to be losing out. Like you need to be jumping on this trend right now.
[00:32:09] Charles: Um, and we started ranking for everything, right? Like it's even, even right now. Google is supposed to be doing this site reputation abuse stuff. LinkedIn posts is still ranking. Like it's still ranking amazingly for tons of keywords and things. And it's still got featured snippets for loads of stuff as well.
[00:32:21] Charles: And again, how does that play into helpful content and EAT and all these things? Right. It doesn't, it doesn't make sense.
[00:32:29] Olga: Yeah, exactly. so what's the state of affiliate SEO after all these updates? Like, is it harder to get? I assume it depends on the niche, but what are your observations here?
[00:32:42] Charles: Uh, most affiliate niche sites, uh, have got wrecked, right?
[00:32:46] Charles: It's they're, they're, they're over. Like it's a lot of the sites have just been taken out. Um, generally speaking, most people tend to blame it. On Google's helpful content update and large sites like Forbes and things like that. But from my research, we've actually found that most of it seems to be an intent level change.
[00:33:10] Charles: So from previously, maybe, you know, three, four, five years ago, the entire top 10 SERP might've been niche blogs reviewing a best product, right? And you can see it. I posted a tweet a couple of days ago showing that this was the case for paintball guns, right? If you Googled paintball guns in 2021, the whole SERP was just.
[00:33:32] Charles: Blogs kind of giving you the best table guns, right? Now there's one blog that the rest of it is like Reddit, Cora or e commerce websites. So Google has essentially said that user behavior has shifted. Or that's what they think. I don't necessarily think that that lines up across all niches, especially like higher ticket niches.
[00:33:55] Charles: So if you're talking about, you know, expensive tech products and things like that, most people Googling aren't actually looking for an e commerce buyer journey yet. They're looking for information on like the latest phone that's come out or the latest thing that's, because they want to, they want to find out about it and look into it.
[00:34:11] Charles: But that's not what Google serving now because they've done it such a broad. Change around all of these things, right? So again, most sites are kind of blaming it on like Forbes and stuff like that replacing I don't see that. I see it more as an intent level change across the board So I don't see that you can now if again if you have an affiliate blog And Google has changed the intent of that.
[00:34:31] Charles: So you can't rank like that. It's just game over, right? But parasite SEO means you can still write, right? So I be recommending is that if Google screwed over your website and you've got a bit of a nest egg and some treasure and stuff, and you've got the data and you know, which keywords convert well, and you know, which keywords have got high commissions and things like that, then just go and build parasite pages at minimum, the most you've got to lose is your time because you're just building free parasite pages, right?
[00:34:59] Charles: Ideally you want to try and build some sponsored ones and some free ones that kind of mix it up and see what really works. But at the minimum, all you're losing is time. Um, and you can, from what we've can tell you can't recover sites from HCU, right? The only way you can recover is by moving domain name.
[00:35:15] Charles: And most people don't want to do that because they've established that domain name, they've got business cards, they've got like printed things. They've got, you know, web banners, they've got graphics, they've got their social medias. They've got 200 different profiles set up linking to that one website.
[00:35:28] Charles: Like they don't want to change domain names. So most people can't recover. So there's no point in spending time and things on a site that you cannot physically change anything about. At least not until Google changes the algorithm.
[00:35:43] Olga: So except for that domain change, you haven't seen any recovery from helpful content?
[00:35:51] Charles: So the only recovery we have seen on a website is when websites have deleted. I'm talking 90%, 95 percent of their website. And from what we can tell, that is just deleting all of the pages that Google has put the classifier on, and then that in itself removes the classifier because you no longer have the pages that have the classifier on it.
[00:36:12] Charles: But the problem is that they're deleting 95 percent of their website. So they're just deleting pages for the sake of deleting them to hope that Google removes it. But if you go and delete and search from the sites that have deleted that night fives in those pages, yes, they've recovered traffic on 5 percent of them.
[00:36:29] Charles: But they've still lost 90 percent of their traffic because they've lost 90 percent of their pages. So it doesn't, it's not a recovery because they still lose traffic and they, they're still back to square one. And their hope is that now they create new pages and that those new pages. Are going to create that money and traffic back but all the old people they spent all that time and resources and cash on Are just burned and that you know, they're throwing money into a fire bit basically,
[00:36:53] Olga: huh?
[00:36:54] Olga: Have you ever built and ranked and been very successful with a site using only like white hat seo tactics?
[00:37:04] Charles: Yep, 100. Yeah. So for my family business we do e commerce, right? So we so um, we do like e commerce stores Transparency. Again, recently we have been closing a lot of them because our, um, B2B side is just doing better, right?
[00:37:18] Charles: Like we can't do B2C as well because we don't have logistics and things like internal, you have to outsource everything like that. So B2B is just easier for us. It's easier to send a container of, you know, furniture than it is to send one to a customer's house. Like it's, it's just easy to do that. So I've done a lot of white hat campaigns on, you know, Our e commerce websites and for my own personal brand in SEO, I've never done anything like that.
[00:37:43] Charles: Right. So like for all of my own websites, despite Google coming after me and penalizing them and, you know, hitting them and stuff, I never built any links at like charleswake. com. And I never did like blackout SEO on any of those websites. And so despite Google still. You know, penalizing them.
[00:37:58] Olga: Tell me more about those penalties you got.
[00:38:01] Olga: Walk me through because, because I, I think I don't know like the entire picture.
[00:38:06] Charles: Yeah. So in 2013, I had a, I had like my God of SEO. ca blog, right. And I was living in Canada at the time. So that's why it was a ca blog. Um, and I was, and it grew massively. Like it went really quickly. I went from earning like three or 4, 000 a month, earning like 25K a month really, really rapidly.
[00:38:27] Charles: Mainly because of the connections and the networking and the information opportunities I was getting from my SEO community and network and stuff, right? Um, and Google essentially gave me a pure spam penalty on that blog, every other site that was in my search console. They also banned my AdWords. They banned my analytics.
[00:38:49] Charles: They banned my YouTube channel. They banned my, uh, the only thing that didn't ban was my Gmail. So I did, they banned my Google drive even and things like that. Um, so I had, and this was all on the same day at the same time, like everything just got wiped. And I had like my email on my phone was like, like bad, bad, bad.
[00:39:08] Charles: Pure spam penalty, de indexing, everything, just like hit it like a storm. Literally. It was like, there was like 10 engineers at Google just hitting buttons all simultaneously. Like it was fucking wild. Um, but I, cause I was living in Canada. I spoke to Marie Haines immediately because she was like two hour drive away from me or something.
[00:39:26] Charles: So I spoke to her immediately. She looked into it and she was like, to be honest, this is the first time I think a penalty is personal. Like, I don't see how. You, you like all, all the blog posts on your site, all of them are white hat. You haven't built a single link like you have like 97 Rd to your website.
[00:39:44] Charles: Like it doesn't make any sense,
[00:39:46] Olga: huh?
[00:39:47] Charles: That they would come and it's obviously, it's obviously it's not pure spam, so like that penalty is saying that your entire website is spam and it has no value. Yeah. Obviously I was writing like custom case studies and like blog posts of myself for the SEO OT and the SEO T saw the value in it, so it did have value.
[00:40:02] Charles: It was just a personal thing Then about. I think in 2018, they did the same thing again, but to charlesfloat. co. uk, so they did it to my other site. So I've rebranded from God of SEO to Charles Float to try and, you know, Be less egotistical or whatever the fucking thing is and Google just decided to whack me all over again and kind of come after the accounts and stuff And the second time is what made me really paranoid.
[00:40:27] Charles: So I I moved all of my accounts I stopped associating anything that I was doing like on this computer where I have all of my I have none of my site portfolio. I don't even have the password saved. I don't have anything. It's all on a VPS that I remotely connect to. And then that has everything, which is on a different country, different IP address, everything.
[00:40:46] Charles: And I never connect to anything. Outside of that environment, which, which I think protects me and it has so far. And in the recent manual penalties, when a lot of the influencers who are like sharing websites on YouTube and Twitter and stuff, look, I'm using bulk AI content. Here's the domain name. Those domains seemingly got hit, you know, surprise, surprise.
[00:41:06] Charles: You know, if you're sharing stuff and like acting Jameela and things, it's. Yeah, probably not the best of ideas. Um, so yeah, I think it's done me a service doing that. And all of the SEOs that I spoke to, like Julian Goldie, Jackie Chow, all of those kind of people that were caught up in the manual penalty kind of saga, which does seem again to be manual actions against people who are publicly showing their Blackhat sites.
[00:41:29] Charles: Um, all of those people are now kind of in agreement with me and they're not doing public case studies and stuff.
[00:41:35] Olga: Okay. And with those two times you recovered, like you filed a reconsideration request?
[00:41:42] Charles: Nope. So I've, I even asked, so Marie Haines actually filed one for me.
[00:41:46] Olga: Uh huh.
[00:41:47] Charles: She did that work, she did everything and it got rejected.
[00:41:50] Olga: And what did they say?
[00:41:51] Charles: I No, nothing. The, so there's normally a message, right? Yeah. Which comes back, mine was empty .
[00:41:58] Olga: Wow.
[00:41:59] Charles: It, it just says it has another colon, like the, the.dot. And then nothing . It was, it was just that. Um, and so I filed it about four or five times myself, and then Marie filed one as well.
[00:42:11] Charles: All got rejected. And then the second time, I, uh, couldn't do it because they banned the account. So I couldn't log into search console to actually. even file a reconsideration request. And that was on charlesfolk. co. uk. Um, and I've got charlesfolk. com indexed now, but that also has a penalty on it still, but it's indexed.
[00:42:37] Olga: Have you tried like reaching out to a Googler and kind of talk about it?
[00:42:42] Charles: So I spoke to Gary Liss in 2019 in Bali,
[00:42:47] Olga: Um,
[00:42:48] Charles: and we were at a conference together and I came over to him and obviously in person, especially then I was like a lot younger than I am now and stuff and I'm, I'm still young. So a lot of people don't realize.
[00:42:59] Charles: I'm me when I first go over to people. Um, so I went over to me and I introduced myself. Hey, I'm Charles. And he was like, Oh, nice to meet you. Um, and he's like, Oh, what's your Twitter? I'll, I'll follow you on Twitter. So I showed him and he was like, Oh yeah, I can't follow you on Twitter.
[00:43:18] Olga: Okay.
[00:43:20] Charles: So at least I know that, you know, I'm, I'm, they're aware of me and things like that, right.
[00:43:24] Charles: And like occasionally I'll get, um, John Mueller will like reply to my tweets. Do you feel like very sarcastic? Things. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But he, he's blocked like half the SEO community now, and like he, he's, he hasn't blocked me, which is really quite surprising, to be honest. . Um, so yeah, I, I, it's, I think the Google engineers kind of, um, it's probably a, you know, what's it called?
[00:43:44] Charles: An admir anal respect kind of scenario where I expect them for their job, they expect me for my job, and we'll keep it , keep it cordial.
[00:43:52] Olga: , that's an interesting story really. So, uh, talking about like Black Hat SEO, like two or three final questions. What are like the tools you could recommend for someone who wants, who wants to explore that space?
[00:44:11] Charles: Uh, in terms of Black Hat, there's, we don't really use that many, um, tools and stuff, right? There's not like, you know, automated link loading and stuff is kind of the days are gone. So a lot of it now is just like AI content again. So you can use Cuppa, cuppa. sh. We have some awesome YouTube tutorials on my channel.
[00:44:29] Charles: I will link it
[00:44:29] Olga: somewhere.
[00:44:31] Charles: Appreciate it. We also, we, uh, in terms of what you said earlier about indexing services, I use indexing services to get stuff indexed if we can't get it indexed. There's a really good one called Index Me Now. There's other good ones called like Giga Indexer and things like that.
[00:44:45] Charles: Um, which again, they can get, you know, 50, 000 pages indexed in a day or something like that. So you can have literally bulk spam websites and they'll index them for you. Um, then we have a lot of other kind of like marketplaces and things that you can just buy links off of and stuff like that. So I actually, a lot of the English markets are really overpriced.
[00:45:06] Charles: So I actually tried to go a bit more underground and the, the best from what I can tell. Anyway, the best black hat SEO scene isn't even in English. It's in French, right? Like the French are actually the best at black hat from what I can tell. So it's true. And, uh, I've, I use a lot of the French link marketplaces because they still sell English links, but you can go onto like one of the English marketplaces and it will be 99 euros for this link on.
[00:45:33] Charles: On one of the French marketplaces, it's like 14 euros or 15 euros. Something like that. It's so much cheaper. So I've been using them quite a lot recently, but the French marketplace has been quite a place and things. And then in general, uh, the French have got quite a few tools and stuff out that I've been testing recently.
[00:45:48] Charles: They're the owners of one of the indexing tools and next to me now as well, that French. Um, and then a couple of the other tools and stuff that I mean, testing like CTR manipulation tools and things like that, that all from France as well. So it's, uh, Yeah, it's pretty interesting, but definitely they have the best scene from what I can tell.
[00:46:02] Charles: But again, I'm English. They don't necessarily want to speak to me.
[00:46:07] Olga: And do you use Cora?
[00:46:10] Charles: I don't know. So I, I don't use any kind of auditing tools or anything like that. We do most of our audits manually. Um, the only auditing tool that I ever use with SiteBuild So because it was, I can just stick my VA's into it and the hints and the video guides would allow them to do stuff without me having to tell them how to do it.
[00:46:29] Charles: So that was really good for us because it allowed our VA's to kind of do technical SEO without actually being trained in technical SEO because they just get, uh, you know, kind of like hints and tutorials and how to do everything.
[00:46:41] Olga: Okay. So given all the tips you've shared, what would you like recommend to someone who is starting out and wants to like be successful?
[00:46:52] Charles: Just test free parasites, right? Like the easiest way to do SEO right now is to just test websites that don't cost you anything. Like you, again, you can, you don't have to spend any money right now. to test ParraSite SEO. But you have to spend money to test WhiteHat SEO. Because you have to have a domain name, and you have to have a blog post and hosting and all this stuff, right?
[00:47:14] Charles: But you don't to test BlackHat. So if you're wanting to try, try SEO and test it out and see if you can rank pages and see, What it takes to optimize content and build links and all this kind of stuff. You can just use your time, um, with passive SEO and you don't have to spend a dime. And that's quite, you know, approachable and quite appealing to a lot of people because especially right now with the state of, you know, economies around the world, like a downwards trend.
[00:47:40] Charles: Um middle class and things like that it makes it so there's actually quite a lot a lot of opportunity And I know multiple people right now that have kind of entered seo in the last couple of years And they're just using free parasite pages to make a living that has out that has replaced their full time job It might be, you know, like three or 4, 000 a month, but they're working from home.
[00:48:00] Charles: They're their own boss. They can do whatever they want. They, all they have to do is just research and analyze niches all day and build pages. And that's basically, and again, it doesn't cost them anything. They just have to try all stuff and test things out. And they're not, again, it's, it's, it's. Very limited around what our updates have affected.
[00:48:17] Charles: Like if anything over the last year, it's just boosted all over and over again. Um, and we've only seen manual actions against parasite, right? We haven't seen anything from the algorithm actually doing much good. So we've, and if it has done good, we've just replaced it with other websites. So all I can see from right now is that it's the most approachable and appealing is parasite.
[00:48:40] Charles: If you want to do. Your own blog, just be very aware that you need to do SERP analysis to see if you can rank because some blogs now they won't rank in certain niches because Google only wants e commerce pages and Reddit UGC pages and things like that. They don't want to rank blog posts and articles anymore.
[00:48:57] Charles: So you have to do that analysis in the first place to see if that style works anymore. And it's quite ironic that now. Like free Paris at SEO black at SEO is the least risky approach to SEO. And then actually like white hat blogging and stuff is potentially like the most risky because Google seems to.
[00:49:18] Charles: Dislike small publishers over and over again and just you know Grind them into the ground with intent changes and an authority Upping authority signals and things like that over and over again.
[00:49:29] Olga: Yeah, and with with that parasite seo So you're saying because I haven't really thought about it this way I always thought that yeah, because I have like a bunch of websites.
[00:49:38] Olga: I was thinking yeah, I have a website and like for that website I can use parasite and from that link to my Affiliate offers and to my website But this is quite new to me that I can do this without even having a website So so I chose a theme a product right and I keep writing about it on other websites or like What's what's the process for for you to to kind of um to kind of follow that?
[00:50:06] Charles: Yeah, so I I think it's exactly what you just said It's also, it allows you to test niches as well. So without having to commit, you know, resources to building a website and building content and things like that, you can see if an affiliate offer even converts by writing a parasite page, right? Which only took you maybe a couple hours to make and see if that niche is approachable in the first place.
[00:50:26] Charles: In terms of how I approach things, it's all a dish, uh, initial analysis. So I go into the SERP. I see what's ranking. I see if the top few pages have got, you know, 5, 000 words of content. If they've got internal links from other pages on the site, if they've got a ton of backlinks, how much is it going to take for me to rank in this SERP?
[00:50:47] Charles: And generally speaking for, you know, if it's a new website, a new blog, something like that, It's going to take me like a hundred thousand dollars in like years to rank it. It's like, that's just not kind of doable. Um, so I find that you can just go and again, find the parasites that are going to be dominating topically for that niche.
[00:51:05] Charles: And a lot of the time there are like certain parasites will be better at certain niches than others. Just because they have more topical authority and that's generally speaking, because like some newspapers will have covered maybe health a lot more than another newspaper is covered, like technology a lot more and things like that, that just means that you end up with better sites, being able to rank better for certain keywords.
[00:51:27] Charles: So we just, um, try and create content on the most affordable and the highest ROI pages that we possibly can. And then see if they rank once they do rank, that's when we see, okay, do we need to build links at them? Or is it immediately it's ranking number one. We don't need to build links now. So it's, it's allowed us to do all that for us.
[00:51:45] Charles: Um, and then after the page is ranking, that's when we need to do, we need to have more pages with internal links at that page. Do we need to build, um, link building? Do we need to put social signals? Do we need to edit the page and add more content? Do we need to add a YouTube video? Do we need to do images?
[00:52:00] Charles: Maybe we do another page on the same domain name, all the, all these kinds of things, right? Because again, some of these. Domains because Google changed things in the last year that allowed multiple pages from the same domain name to ranking us up for this. So there's quite a few steps now where the, so we've actually found that instead of just doing one post on that, on that power site, Sometimes we'll do two on the exact same topic, the exact same keyword, and it will frank twice.
[00:52:28] Charles: So we'll actually take multiple positions. Yeah. And that's even more like wild, right? So we just try and, uh, try and see what we need to do and then execute it and then follow up with any additional things that we need. And a lot of the time we're trying to take multiple positions. So we're not just making one page on one website.
[00:52:48] Charles: We're making 10 pages on 10 different websites. And we're trying to take number one, number two, number three, number four, and number five. Right? Yeah. So we're trying to take the whole set and kind of hijack keywords and things.
[00:52:58] Olga: Perfect. And last question. What do you think in general is the area of SEO people now aren't focusing on enough and, and are focusing on too much?
[00:53:09] Olga: Like what would you, what, what you are observing that you think should change?
[00:53:16] Charles: Yeah, so people, number one, people are just focusing too much on what Google is saying, right? It's, it, it, you should look at what is happening in the service. Okay. Because at the end of the day, all that matters and all that is reflected is what is happening in the SERPs and Google can say all that they want, but if the SERPs are saying the opposite, it doesn't really matter.
[00:53:35] Charles: And then a lot of people get like paranoid and get scared and like in their own heads. About Google releases and like, and they get very analytical about the documentation and like, you know, reading into, Oh, they said this one line, which must mean, and it's like conspiracy theory or most trying to like piece things together from like stuff, right.
[00:53:53] Charles: That's a really bad mindset to, to come into things because it means that you're kind of like splintered and fractional and you're not actually, you're not a kind of a cohesive strategy and you're not sticking to that strategy. You're being, and that, again, that causes. Uh, you to take unnatural actions and that's where Google's flagging you and that's where Google's finding your site is because you're taking these actions and these triggers that look unnatural to Google.
[00:54:15] Charles: So we just try and make everything look clean, look wiped out, look very stable with very low link velocity, but we might be buying very high authority links, stuff like that. Um, and then in terms of what people aren't focusing on, the number one thing I would say is internal linking. Right. The amount of consultations I've done where there's no internal links on any page, and I'm like, you spent how much on Lingodon, but you have no internal links to pass the link equity between pages.
[00:54:43] Charles: Like this makes no sense. So that's definitely by far the number one thing. Um, the second thing is schema and microdata. People get very, very obsessive with like schema which one's the right one, which one's the wrong one, if they should be doing it, if they should not be doing it. Should they be doing FAQ schema?
[00:54:59] Charles: Should they not? You know, all of this kind of stuff. Um, and again, just do Cirq analysis. If your top five competitors are all on average using that schema, you should probably use it too, right? Yeah, you do Google based consensus into the algorithm and it did that like two years ago or so so you want to be doing the same thing that the other sites are doing because that's why they're ranking is that because Google is Looking for similarity.
[00:55:22] Charles: They're looking for consensus on a topic so that they know that that topic is accurate and that it's Again, that is bad in itself, though, because of, you know, multiple reasons around like scientific advancements and things. And if you've got all of this research about one topic and it's a consensus, but the new research is actually what's right.
[00:55:40] Charles: But it's a lot smaller than the bubble of this research that it's showing the old research, not the new stuff. Right. So there is things that are in Google's algorithm that aren't, I would, I would remove from like a search engineering perspective, but that you have to play into and that a lot of people don't play into it and they don't.
[00:55:57] Charles: they're just, they don't analyze things like the amount of people that I'm like, who are your biggest competitors in this? And they don't know, they know their biggest keywords, but they don't know who's like the top five sites that they're competing with are, and that's. How are you supposed to know what, what, uh, people are doing?
[00:56:13] Charles: What, like what you're, the first thing you should do as a business is find out who you're competing with, right? That's the, that's just, so exactly. And so I think that, A lot of the, a lot of people, again, they're, they're too emotional and that you should view things from the investor mentality, where you can't be emotional around investments.
[00:56:35] Charles: You have to be logical. You have to be analytical and you can't treat anything personally. You have to treat it as if it's business because it is right.
[00:56:43] Olga: And
[00:56:44] Charles: People just get too latched on, they get too emotional and that's what causes them to make bad decisions. And that's what causes them to create.
[00:56:50] Charles: It's, it's almost like they're creating like mental health problems for themselves as well. Like the amount of SEOs that I speak to and who are like paranoid and like, like obsessive about things and stuff like that is way, way higher than any other job I've kind of spoken to. Right. And people are very opinionated and stuff and just be open to your opinions changing, right?
[00:57:09] Charles: I know that my opinions and that. My, um, SEO strategies and stuff were worse 10 years ago. And a lot of that is because I listened to other people and that I adapted from other people. And that I, and if I'd been very kind of solidified in my approach and my opinions, I wouldn't have done that. And I wouldn't have improved and I wouldn't have become a better SEO.
[00:57:29] Charles: And at the end of the day, Don't think that you know everything because you don't, I don't know everything. I don't even know close to everything. Right. So, and a lot of people seem to treat me like I do, but trust me, I do not. Um, and that should speak volumes to other people, right? It should mean that you probably know even less and considerably less.
[00:57:46] Charles: Right. So it should mean that, that again, you are approaching everything as if you don't have the full picture. And that you should be treating everything as if you have, you know, your strategy in place and they should be sticking to things and adapting and not being reactive, but being proactive and things like that.
[00:58:02] Olga: Yeah, I think I will have a lot of nice quotes from that. So Charles, where can people find you? What's the best, best place to follow you?
[00:58:12] Charles: Yeah. So just come to my, I post on Twitter X a lot. So at Charles underscore SEO, or you can go to charleswhite. com there. You can access like my courses, my YouTube, my blog posts, my training, everything as well.
[00:58:25] Charles: Um, yeah, I appreciate you having me on.
[00:58:27] Olga: I'm very honored that you accept it. Like this is, uh, I know this is going to be a super, super interesting episode, like so many knowledge bumps. So I'm very grateful and thanks.
[00:58:39] Charles: No worries at all. I appreciate you. Appreciate you having me again.
[00:58:41] Olga: Yeah. So thanks.
[00:58:42] Olga: And bye bye.
[00:58:43] Charles: Thanks. Bye
[00:58:44] guys.
