SEO Cash Flow
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[00:00:00] Hello everyone. Welcome to SEO Cash Flow with me Olga Zarr and Myriam Jessier. Myriam, how are you doing? I'm excited. Summer is here, at least in Portugal. Yeah, in Poland as well. It's, it's very hot today. I had to like turn my AC on even. Oh, yeah. No, I live by the beach currently and I'm enjoying it. Oh. Yeah, so I wish I, I was living by the beach, but I live by the forest, if that makes any, this is actually really nice.
[00:00:36] And, um, I think next month I will be living by the forest for a few weeks as well. Digital nomad lifestyle. I love it. Yeah. And when, when and where? So I'm gonna be somewhere in Austria by the beautiful lakes, and it's gonna be next month in July. Nice. Nice. Okay. So Miriam, what are we talking about today?
[00:01:00] Well, we're talking about something really important that helps me live my best digital nomad life and helps you as well in your day-to-day job. Right? It never evolves. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. So what's going on here? Like , how should we approach this topic? Well, the Unpack it.
[00:01:22] Let, let's start unpacking it by, let's go back to the beginning. So, when I first got into, um, a proper, a proper SEO agency after working in-house, I had PowerPoints. I mean, I think the PowerPoints had PowerPoints to explain to you how to PowerPoint. That's how PowerPointy it was. So I looked at these things and I was like, What does it mean and why are we doing the whole the same thing over and over again?
[00:01:49] And I had questions and people were like, just read the PowerPoint. Okay, so that's how I'm supposed to work. I'll figure it out. And that was not a pleasant experience, but it taught me something. It taught me what I liked about it, and it taught me what I didn't like about it. And my audits, my keyword research, my anything that is a deliverable in seo.
[00:02:14] Keeps being updated. Like I keep improving whatever I give clients because there's one way to do it. And every agency, every s e o team has the right way. Like apparently there's only one way. Uh, but we have 50 different ways, right? So at the end of the day when you're a freelancer, you have to start and.
[00:02:40] You kind of make it up as you go, right? And it's like super uncomfortable, but that's what you get paid for. So I think you also had issues when you first got started. No. Mm. Yeah,
[00:02:52] Let's look. But let's talk about the need for a template. So I know that you offer so many resources to people to get started. Why did you feel like there was a really big need to offer a template? That's a good question because to be honest, I got a lot of messages from people, asking me because I had a lot of, guides, tutorials on like auditing, different aspects of auditing, and I kept asking, do we have a template?
[00:03:20] Can you share a template? And I finally did. Um, There's a reason why people ask for this, because we don't. We know why. We know, but we don't know how to tell others what we know and how to make it worth their while. So you wanna feel like you're a professional, you wanna feel like you're put together, but you don't even know how to get started with this.
[00:03:43] Huh? So ultimately, you do need a checklist. You do need a template because even with a checklist, you're like, okay, how do I make this. A visual thing. So I know that when we talk about audits, we're not gonna talk just about audits, but let's get started with a big chunk. An audit is usually the first time you're gonna be in contact with a client.
[00:04:02] It's the first thing you're gonna do. And I know there's people who are pro or against audits, fine. We can take that offline to another episode, but right now we're talking about audits. There's some people that will do an audit in Google Docs or a Word document, and it's like this really long. 50 page document that my A D H D brain goes, no, no, no, no.
[00:04:24] I am not reading this. And imagine you're a poor client reading this going, okay, so what do I do? Like everything sounds terrifying. What do I do? And then you have agencies that have beautiful PowerPoints. I have pretty PowerPoints. We can talk about it later. Yeah, sure. But. I realized that people were paying for the PowerPoints.
[00:04:42] They loved to have a PowerPoint that they could take to their boss and go, here are the problems, here are the things we need to do, et cetera. And then I started evolving. So I'm not even doing PowerPoints anymore. Oh, I also, I do video audits. You can watch me audit your site. It goes so much faster. I don't have to copy paste stuff.
[00:05:05] I can point out problems and sometimes if the client really wants to PowerPoint, I will integrate the video explanation of the problem in the slides. So I will go if you want to actually understand beyond the presentation or if you want the presentation to be lighter. Cuz we agreed on one hour. I'm not gonna take up three hours to present a hundred slides.
[00:05:26] Here I, here's the video if you wanna know more. You can have Miriam on tap. Enjoy yourself. You get to sound smart. So what do your audits look like currently? What's the format? Tell us a bit more. Okay, so they also kind of evolved. I started with Excel template. But it was, it wasn't that boring. Maybe. I hope because I had prioritization, all my comments, recommendations were always like adjusted to, to a specific case.
[00:05:57] They weren't like general . I advised doing this and that. I also edit at the end of the audit. I used to add like the checklist, the next steps in the order. I think they should be done. Then for some time I started offering audits in the form of a Google Doc , where there was also a toptable of contents with priorities.
[00:06:18] But there were like more screenshots, more details. And some clients actually prefer this. They like to have this very, very lengthy document and actually see what, what I meant. But, but after, I dunno, after a year, I started also adding a video.
[00:06:37] Summary of the audits, like 10, 15, 20 minutes, and it kind of, I think it made the, the entire difference because now, clients are telling me, oh, I, I understand actually, I know what you mean. Even though I thought I will, I was explaining so clearly. Everything was like, there were so many screenshots.
[00:06:54] Everything, when I add a video, it's, it's always, always better. And on my YouTube channel, I also started like doing those, freestyle. SEO video audit. When I simply open the site, I have never seen the site. I click record and I start doing the audit. And this is, and even from those like super quick audits, a lot of people or owners of of the sites were able to learn a lot.
[00:07:20] So that's in a nutshell, my approach. Let me deconstruct this for people watching. Okay, so what you're saying, Olga, is that you truly understand the medium is the message. The way you deliver the audit will guarantee its success in terms of implementation. That it's understood that it travels well within the company and that maybe just maybe you are selling more services with this.
[00:07:44] Okay. So that's something that you have to keep in mind if you work in an agency, if you work in house, if you work as a freelancer, that document is just the beginning, okay? It enables you to tell people, this is what's right, this is what's wrong, this is how we should proceed based on what you wanna reach, okay?
[00:08:01] So if you're doing an Excel, it's highly organized and very often it will be absolutely what another specialist wants. So if you're delivering to an s e O team, or if you're delivering to a marketing person that has a technical background, Go for it. If you are delivering to a team that is curious and wants to know more, the Google Docs or the PowerPoint, you usually start by explaining the problem, show the screenshots, you explain why it's a problem.
[00:08:30] Yeah. How to fix it, and you give a link to the documentation so it's all in one. And as you said, You have to make it actionable so at the end you have a roadmap. Shout out once again to my friend Jess Joyce. Hi Jess. She does this amazing thing in her audits where people can literally like import the stuff from her audits directly to their Asana, directly to their Trello.
[00:08:53] So she works with her clients who are SaaS businesses in the B2B space. These people, they don't have time for pretty, they understand you prioritized it. They paid you for the prioritization. Okay. They wanna import it and get it done. So of course they need all this information, but it needs to plug into their reality.
[00:09:13] And that's what you were saying, although when I started doing, the documents are a bit prettier, people could understand better and it, it was going well. So we have to think about how people learn. Some people are very like textual. They will read an article. Some people are very visual and some people are very audio or audiovisual.
[00:09:35] Yeah, AK the videos. And what I like about videos is that their documentation that can be shared with other people. So let's say that the developer you told what to do is gone. Your document, the knowledge is gone. You did the presentation once. So that's why video audits work super well. So it, it's very important to understand which type of client you're talking to.
[00:10:00] If you're talking to technical folks or people who already have experience, you can afford to be less cute and very pragmatic if you're talking to people who are more on the marketing end or not as technical. Make sure you put it in forms, that it travels well, that it looks good, that it makes sense, because at the end of the day, you're not delivering your audit, you're delivering work done.
[00:10:23] You've been hired by a company. So having that company's logo in there, having their own sayings, having their own screenshots makes a difference. Okay? Making the stuff actionable. Same thing. That's why most clients absolutely hate keyword research. Excels like nobody likes them. Because you don't know what to do, right?
[00:10:44] Yeah, totally. If you change the delivery and start thinking, like, for example, I do keyword matrixes where I explain, Hey, people care about seasons, people, for example, for travel, website seasons, reasons to travel. So you have your kids, you're on a romantic getaway. All this. When you explain the human psychology behind the keywords and you're like, here's how you could pick them, here's how it makes sense.
[00:11:07] All of a sudden those keywords start making sense to people. They don't scare them anymore. Yeah, totally. So that's why we're talking about deliverables, because at the end of the day, that's what you're selling. You're not selling your knowledge, you are selling a solution to someone. So that in mind, I'm glad to see that both of us are doing the video thing.
[00:11:29] Huh. Cuz that's, that's nice. And I know, I know some of you are probably using the video thing to sell more stuff. That's also fine, like to each their own. But just consider your clients and how they work. How can you make the transition from audits and recommendations to actually implemented stuff smoother?
[00:11:52] Remove the friction by creating a deliverable. That makes sense. So what other deliverables. What other deliverables have you changed or tweaked over the years? Yeah, let me think. Maybe I would say client communication.
[00:12:08] the amount of support, I am now providing. Do you have any, any. Yes, I know you work on this deliverable regularly and you didn't even think of it because it's so natural to you. Technical specs when there's a website, oh, that needs to be re see. See, that is also another deliverable that people pay you for, right?
[00:12:28] Yeah. So how do you end up with technical specs? That makes sense because for me, mine are so long that my clients call them the Bible. Oh, everything is covered. Here's why I'm, I'm gonna give you like my side and I, I can't wait to hear yours. Mine is that, um, I work with dev centers and what they love to do is cut corners and say, you weren't clear enough on this, so we didn't do it.
[00:12:55] Oh, but we thought this was phase two. No, no, no, no. I've, I put everything in writing like a contract with the devil. Okay. Like, it's, it's that detailed. So when you come back and say, oh, we didn't, 4.2 0.1 clause a. To be honest, I don't actually deliver this type of, deliverables. I mostly do audits, different types of audits.
[00:13:20] I also offer SEO consultations when, where I simply, someone has a problem, they tell me what the problem is, and then I have like 90 minutes to solve it, or entire day, depending on how we,, specify it. . Hear me out. Hear me out. Isn't that a different form of the same deliverable?
[00:13:40] It is, but it is priced differently and yeah, it's definitely priced better in a better way. So that's the different end of things. So this is very, very important. You will have just like an agency, some deliverables where, for example, an E-commerce Shopify website. Of course I have the specs. Of course, if you're gonna pay me, I'm gonna charge you a specific amount.
[00:14:05] Because I'm gonna have to like tweak some stuff, but I already have my document that I invested in that I just need to upkeep. So this is investing in your own assets that you can resell. But, but, but, but you have to be smart about it because if you keep re reinventing the wheel every single time, you're wasting time, you're wasting money, you're getting tired.
[00:14:27] And if you do video calls where it's. Come to me with your problem. We will investigate together and I have an hour and a half to fix this instead of selling a put together plan that takes hours because you have to make it pretty. You have to think about how you're gonna explain it, all of a sudden gets to video.
[00:14:47] So, so hear me out. You would end up earning more money per hour of doing this video Yeah. Than if you are doing a paper deliverable that costs a lot of. Money, but it's time that is spent making stuff, pretty explaining stuff that you could be showing in 20 seconds, et cetera. Yeah. That's why probably I, yes, don't really offer that.
[00:15:11] Just audits. Yes. Different types of audits and consultations and monthly seo, but that's kind of different. But this means you also have different types of clients. Yes. We don't all have the same clients. If you work, for example, in fashion, very often they want the pretty. They want the city to take it.
[00:15:31] They want the shiny to show that they have had an audit done or that they have the specs. Okay. Yeah, totally. So, so you have to adapt the deliverable, the price, the delivery of the deliverable to the client you're gonna be talking to. So that's why here we are together talking about so many different types of deliverables.
[00:15:53] What's. A big piece of advice you would give to people because you didn't start with videos, right? Like how did you wake up one day going, no, let's go video. I don't know. I think once someone else, I don't know, sent me loom explaining something, this was like not really, I think, related even to seo, showing me something, and then it kind of dawned on me that maybe that's really a time saver and it can really save so much time writing an email.
[00:16:23] Because before that I was always writing everything and it's, it always took ages. And then just why not do video? Right? So. Mm-hmm. And I started like, slowly, slowly, very slowly because I didn't feel comfortable talking. I was like, it was very, very hard for me in the beginning to do video. I had to really do a lot of like, mind work to get used to that.
[00:16:46] But I think this is the biggest kind of transition I, I, I went through,. Another thing that I will do that is a hybrid of the video is that I will offer worksheets for clients.
[00:17:00] Let me explain. I don't implement the stuff. I do not because I used to, and I realize that you open a Pandora's box. It's not necessarily your job. You don't know the problems that people have. You don't know why it hasn't been implemented. Your job is to make recommendations that will be implemented by other people because that is their job.
[00:17:22] So considering this, I will create worksheets like to do homework for my clients, where instead of having a big Excel file with a dump of information, I will have proper things that they can actually use. So they have a link. And every time I'm like, problem, check out the problem here. Here is the worksheet.
[00:17:44] This is how you should proceed. Go for it. And that's important because I don't know if you've ever been asked this, because I have. What's the difference between you and Sam Rush? I have the human element, human brain. Human experience and Sam is just a tool. Yeah. But I love how you jump into this. I'm petty.
[00:18:07] I look at the person, I'm like, go get Sam Rush and you know, get back to me when you figure it out. Yeah. So, because they're not my clients, but you will be asked these questions and your deliverables have to be solid enough. To provide that answer by themselves. So one of the pieces of advice that, um, Daniel Chu, um, gives that I find amazing.
[00:18:30] He's like, show how you audit things. Show how your mind works, and if you are able to show this, you're halfway done to getting clients. Yeah. That is what they're looking for. Yeah. Yeah. So when, when we consider this, You understand that the difference is that SU is very overwhelming, right? It is. And when people get started, they're like, ah.
[00:18:58] And they're like, oh God, we need a template. Yes. Yeah. So your deliverable in itself is kind of like a story. It has a beginning, a middle, and the end. And the end is the hero is about to win against a dragon. You are not the hero of that story. Your client is okay. Like, let's, let's get that clear. Because if you do deliverable, like you are the hero and you're the best s e o, and you're convincing them that you're be the best seo, you're not gonna get clients anymore.
[00:19:26] Yeah. They're not gonna tell you they're gonna leave. That's it. So, yeah, I'm thinking, you know what? I have another type of deliverable that I give to clients checklists. That is also something, I also have, have this one. Yeah, sure. I forgot. See, see, this is the thing. You're so used to doing all of these things.
[00:19:46] Yeah. This is so obvious. That's, yeah. And that's the same with OnPage SEO checklist. I analyze the OnPage O of a given page. I like have a lot of different, kind of tactics to do that. Mm-hmm. And then I share. What exactly what I think they should do, or I do it depending on, on our deal. I sometimes do the work on clients', clients', uh, pages.
[00:20:08] For me, I'm like, I will teach you how to fish. Show me what to catch. I I will help you figure it out. But I'm, no, I'm not standing there for hours waiting for the fish to buy. Like, we're not doing this. So I will come up with, for example, if you work with, um, A specific type of brand. Let's say that once again, you're a B2B SaaS or you're an e-commerce website or you're whatever, depending on what your job is.
[00:20:32] Are you marketing? Are you the owner? Are you um, the junior or the intern? I will give you a checklist that says, this is what you should be checking monthly. This is what you should be checking quarterly. Yeah. In gsc and here's how to do it. Obviously, little videos and trainings so that way people in the company can.
[00:20:53] Do that, but that's also deliverable. Like this is a tangible tool that you have clients paying for. So, You yourself, you think these checklists, they exist everywhere. I can go on Olga's website and um, download it. No. Clients are paying for you to understand their problem and provide the proper solution.
[00:21:17] Otherwise, they would be checking all the stuff and they would be doing your job as an seo. They wouldn't be hiring you. Couldn't agree more so. So you also have to look into another thing, and I think that's the last bit we can, we can talk about you and I. There's some deliverables that we all do that we all hate.
[00:21:35] So I would advise people if you hate doing something, figure out a better way to do it, because chances are your client probably hates it too. So can you give an example? Yeah, keyword research, like delivering that massive Excel spreadsheet is not gonna work. So, like I said, one of my solutions is the keyword matrix.
[00:21:57] It's also to deliver briefs. Explain how I structure, how I pick the keywords. So the key problem for clients is how do I pick the right keyword for the right content? That's what I deliver. Now, this is much better. I tell, I show them how to do it. So, That would be one of them. Another one that I don't like is the big, bold strategies that we all create that never get implemented because other stuff gets in the way.
[00:22:23] So for me, I explained to my clients, if you're gonna work with me for a year, here's how quarter one is gonna go here. Here's how quarter two, quarter three, quarter four, we're gonna try to do this, this, this, this. So I tell them what's coming up so they don't sound. Surprised, right? I'm like, okay, totally.
[00:22:41] We're gonna do quick wins. Quarter one. Like I won't buy in once we have the buy-in. Once we have proven that this works, then we get started with real strategy. Like we will look at all the other stuff. Quarter one is like quick wins, figuring out the competition, like you, you offer stuff. So, A deliverable should be something that benefits you and the client.
[00:23:01] It cannot be something you absolutely hate or that the client hates. And a deliverable has to keep in mind the type of client, but the type of contract that you also have. Because if it's yearly, not the same game as just doing an audit and like one-off, your job is different, right? If you do consult consulting for a year, You hold them by the hand.
[00:23:21] They are your baby. They are your friend. You want the, you want what's good for them. If you are doing an audit, you want to tell them what sucks. Yeah. Big difference. You know, they're not coming back after this. Like they are going to give you specific mandates, but there's no hand holding. So what's a deliverable that you don't like?
[00:23:40] Something where you're like, oh, I have to do this again. To be honest, I filtered out those types of things so well that now I actually only do the things I like, to be honest, let me think. It's really hard because like I only selected like five, six things I do and I only do those things. But let me, let me think.
[00:24:03] Well, no, I, I like this because this means that you have been successful figuring out what you like to do. Yeah. Which you're very good at, and what people are willing to pay for. For me, it was an existential crisis of I don't wanna do this anymore because it's broken, so let me fix it. So that's why I fixed a few things, things.
[00:24:21] So for me, that was, Working at the agency actually, like at this was something that, that I was feeling that I'm not delivering what I should because the circumstances there, like everything that was happening there didn't let me even do what I wanted to do. So this was this kind of feeling because you weren't selling what clients were paying for Yeah.
[00:24:46] And what you wanted to sell. Yeah. Yeah. And that's, that's why I keep harping on, figure out the right client, the right deliverable. Like make sure that everything is easy for you and for your client, because at the end of the day, you're not doing SEO in a vacuum. You're doing SEO to get stuff done. Yeah, because like for me, Every deliverable should support the bottom line of why, why you are doing that?
[00:25:10] Yes, and it, at that agency, I felt that some of the things I'm doing are solely, totally like senseless and aren't moving the needle, and I love doing the stuff that I. Now will have some impact. Has some impact. So, so you have improved your deliverables by doing stuff that matters and not doing the stuff that doesn't have an added value anymore.
[00:25:32] Yeah, totally. You have improved your deliverables as well. Yeah. Like, yeah. Yes. So I, I hope that this was useful for everyone. Um, Olga, I think you're gonna be looking at your deliverables going, good job. Good job. Yeah, totally. Awesome. Awesome. Thank you for your wisdom, Miriam. As always, you are the the best.
[00:25:57] It was awesome. I, I really love working with you. I love the fact that we align with too many things and I'm hoping if anybody has a comment, like if you have a hard time with the deliverable, do not hesitate to say someone the comments. I'm curious because maybe, maybe we can rethink them. Totally, totally.
[00:26:14] So thanks everyone, and soon in the next episode. Bye-bye. Bye.
